SVG, SVG Budget 2012

Dress properly, don’t tempt men – Deputy PM

Deputy Prime Minister Girlyn Miguel is encouraging Vincentian females to be more modest in their dress (File photo).

KINGSTOWN, St. Vincent – Vincentians women are being encouraged to dress in such a way that they do not tempt their male compatriots.

Deputy Prime Minister Girlyn Miguel, the only female government Parliamentary Representative, told Parliament yesterday that the women of this country are “abused, refused and accused by many of our men.”

“Mr. Speaker, it is not good enough,” she said.

“I want to ask our young women, in particular to dress themselves properly. I know that sometimes, their mode of dress is not good at all and it is important that they dress themselves and do not give temptation to our men,” said Miguel, who is also Minister of Education, during the Budget Debate.

“I know that many a times, they do this but our men can sometimes pull them up a bit and say ‘No’. They have all their mammary glands (breasts) outside — some of them — and they need to know there are two good reasons why we were given these glands.

“Yes, I am speaking as a woman because it hurts me at times to see even the way we dress sometimes for church and when going to funerals.

“And some of our women are almost naked. And … these are some of the little things in society that we need to pay attention to,” Miguel said in the male-dominated Parliament.

“How many of us know the two big uses of the breasts of a woman,” siad Miguel, as former head teacher.

“… one is to suckle the young and the next one is to comfort her husband,” she said as she and other MPs chuckled.

“And these are little things that our girls need to know; and our women. And that is why, sometimes, one of the first things that the little babies say is ‘mama’ because it is the mammary gland why she is called ‘mama’,” she further stated.

“But on a serious note, we need to educate our girls, give them a chance. … if they make any mistakes, if they do not do the things which are right, we do not have to kill them, we do not have to chop them we need to have that love in our hearts,” she further sated.

Statistics says that his country, which last year recorded several homicides and other heinous acts of violence against women, is the femicide capital of the eight-member Organization of Eastern Caribbean States.

“… we have to remember who woman is. Woman is mother; woman is sister; woman is auntie; woman’s hands are the hands that rock the cradle,” Miguel told lawmakers.

“And as a woman myself, … I am asking that each parliamentarians, we do our best as we meet our groups, that we speak to them. We need to encourage our girls. … Sometimes, they stray on the streets and if you meet them, don’t be afraid to call the Ministry of Education,” Miguel said.

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57 thoughts on “Dress properly, don’t tempt men – Deputy PM

  1. What a joke.(miss deputy PM) I think that women have the right to dress the way the want to. Other people should just be resprectfull, civilized and tolerant. This is the 21 century. The world is changing and we should addapt to it. Women emacipation has come along way. Education is the key to development. Educate the people and stop telling them what they should do. They will know what the right thing to do is.

    Posted by tony | January 13, 2012, 06:40
    • I think that you are a fool to make a statement like this. The deputy PM was talking about values that Vincentians women have lost. Education is the key, but pride comes first

      Posted by D Ogorman | January 13, 2012, 16:19
    • So I guess men are called Papa because of the pappary gland lolololol

      Posted by Me | January 15, 2012, 21:59
    • Tony its interesting that you used the word “respectful” in your response to this speech… Are these women being “respectful” of the other members of the society when they parade about the place almost naked??? Are they demanding the respect when they dress in a way that basically leaves nothing for the imagination???

      I read the Minister’s speech, and I personally think that it is being taken way out of context… I honestly don’t think that the Minister is saying that the dress code is the reason that women are being attacked and raped… I think she is marely saying that this can be a contributing factor… There is a time and place for everything, and I personally don’t think that walking on the streets of St Vincent and the Grenadines is the time or place for this… We are forgetting that not all of us are blessed with the mental capacity to control our urges… There are people in society who have problems, and I think that all the Minister is saying is not to put yourself at risk by wearing things that provoke erratic behavior in such individuals… I think that we should embrace the Minister’s suggestions, and see it as her looking out for the best interest of our ladies… This was marely a suggestion, not an order or a Law passed, we can choose to adhere to her advice or ignore it… There are places in the world where it is a crime punishable by death for a woman to be dressed in revealing clothing…

      Lets view this as something positive, good advice, and not chastise the Minister for offering sound advice after all she too is a woman.

      Posted by Marcus | January 17, 2012, 11:43
    • Tony you need to read carefully what the Deputy Prime Minister Girlyn Miguel is encouraging Vincentian females to be more modest in their dress (File photo).She is correct some women need to dress better.

      Posted by nya | February 4, 2012, 18:50
  2. Well said!!!

    Posted by Ethelene Joy Jackson-Clement | January 13, 2012, 06:50
  3. I hope this was not all that Minister Miguel said. Because there are cases where properly dressed women are being abused and raped in their own homes. How do we speak to that?

    Posted by Joshua Richardson | January 13, 2012, 06:54
  4. Is this woman for real? This is a shallow response to a very serious issue.

    Posted by Marcia Kirton | January 13, 2012, 08:03
    • What about older well dressed women who are raped, or beaten by their spouses, what about nuns dressed in their habits being raped? How did these women tempt the men?
      To a great extent we women are truly our own ememies, making excuses for the male of our society, instead we teach our sons that they should respect women, the same women who are responsible for birthing them.

      Posted by Susan Thomas | January 13, 2012, 14:20
  5. Not speaking to the political aspect of her statement but someone needs to teach these young Vincentian women today. So glad that she made mention of it. Let them take note and carry themselves with decorum and class. Yes it’s the 21st century and women have a right to dress how they please but if half of them knew what dignity and pride are and what they stand for, they’d carry themselves as ladies and that goes even to their mode of attire.

    Posted by Wynne | January 13, 2012, 08:19
    • We as men also are duty bound to keep our zippers up. Is Minister Miguel going to ask JAX,, Y DeLima and other establishments to board up their showcases because vandals would be tempted to smash the windows and rob the stores?
      Most coins have 2 faces. I would like to think that the media did not print the full text. If it did, there is still time for Minister Miguel to address the role of “Men” in the fight against crime. Let us not be quick to throw out the baby with the bath water. We are all in this together.

      Posted by Joshua Richardson | January 13, 2012, 08:39
      • I completely agree with your sentiments.
        This attitude that women should feel compelled to change their behavior because they might be raped puts the responsibility of this heinous act on the victim class. This is not only irresponsible and sexist, but is also a method that has proven to be ineffective in other places (like the U.S.).
        How about educating men on how NOT to rape women? It seems to me that if men are the ones doing the raping, then they should be the ones who need better education about interpersonal relationships, boundaries, and respect for the opposite sex.
        I, for one, am displeased by her response to this important issue. I am also insulted that she defines women’s breasts as having only two uses; both of which indicate that a woman’s breasts are not hers, but are there solely for the enjoyment of others.
        When do I get to claim ownership of my own body? Out-friggin-rageous.

        Posted by Reggae Gyals | January 13, 2012, 19:32
    • I doubt that it is easy for one to carry themselves as anything unless (a) they see themselves as something or (b) they are actors and actresses in a theatrical production.

      In this regard, Our subset of Western men need to be viewed with compassion rather than as icons of mythical power. Understanding how to deal with frustration and anger without hurting another is one the things that need to be addressed.

      It is not as if abuse of women and cruelty to women is one of the linchpins of our Caribbean culture. It is something that has grown worse over the years. And, it is well on its way to becoming institutionalized and handed down like a prized legacy. I don’t know what to do about it but this is one aspect of it.

      Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 11:49
  6. These are the most ridiculous statements I have ever heard. What an embarrassing display of ignorance. It is clear that the Deputy Prime Minister shows the same level of intelligence as her boss.

    Posted by Anonymous | January 13, 2012, 08:35
  7. How does temptation lead to abuse? Could the Minister be blaming temptation for the abusive act of rape? This does not sound like a good message to me. First off, rape is an act of rage. an act of aggression. It is not a consequence of desire and lust. People have the right to dress any way they want in the public domain unless they break a law by so doing. And if they do, then there are consequences. My manner of dress ought not to subject me to abuse; worse yet the abuse of rape.

    A secondary concern is that the Minister’s approach puts more responsibility on the victim, the abused woman or man, for what befalls them. Come on, Minister…that’s putting more weight on King sugar. It’s not helpful. It enslaves us emotionally and otherwise.

    Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 08:41
  8. women dress properly and they still tempted men,as joshua said they are being sexually abused and raped in their own homesand on their jobs…properly dressed women……how do we speak to that?

    Posted by Arnette Dirtsman Pollard | January 13, 2012, 08:54
  9. This cannot be the highlight of the Minister’s address Kenton. She made many important points about education and the work of her ministry.I guess in the days ahead you will provide your readers with the other important points she made. One can only hope…..

    Posted by Elson Crick | January 13, 2012, 09:06
    • That’s right crick, sing for your supper…… one can only hope by now you’ve learnt how to read dates properly.

      Posted by vincy in bad shape | January 13, 2012, 09:37
    • Elson, I think you are right. This cannot be the intended highlight of the Minister’s address. But sadly (and as you know) that is not how it works. Perhaps, the point under reference was the most impactful and was delivered with the most conviction. Perhaps? The squeakiest wheel gets the grease first, my friend. That one wheel might even get all the grease.

      Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 11:55
      • Of course, and then again it depends on who greasing the wheel and who singing for their supper!!!!!

        Posted by Elson Crick | January 13, 2012, 12:15
    • Elson, the Minister did also urge the education of our girls. I can say that “That is a good thing”!

      Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 12:14
    • Why don’t you write your own own news? You can’t tell the man what he should or shouldn’t write on. You are out of order. Write your own darm news!!

      Posted by Bagga | January 13, 2012, 12:41
  10. I cannot believe some of the statements I am reading here. We are truly turning our backs to decency. The deputy PM is not saying it is mandatory that women should dress decent. And, dressing properly would not stop a man from raping a woman if he chooses to. More and more parents today are choosing to ignore the fact that their young daughters are leaving the house half naked. And, it’s after something happens that these same parents try to correct the situation. Yes, this may be a simple explanation, but, the deputy PM is only sharing good knowledge. Respect oneself if you want to be respected by others.

    Lin Yutang once wrote : Sometimes it is important to discover what one cannot do, than what one can.

    Posted by anaceita12 | January 13, 2012, 09:34
    • Decency begins in the mind. Putting a sticking plaster (or a Band-Aid) on a life sore will not by itself heal it.

      Revealing clothing might offend or interest the eye but that’s not where it starts. You can command your daughters to do anything you want but there will come the time when you could “bawl blood” and you will not be heard.

      Superficially speaking, the river runs deeper than what you see. Get the minds to move to a higher vibration and you will see how fast the presentation follows. So go ahead and dress decent as much as you want.

      Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 11:39
    • The way women dress should NOT in any way be part of the discussion of the high incidence of rape and crime in the country. How can you tell anyone, who has been a victim of rape, that it was their fault because of they way they are dressed? Dress choice is a personal freedom and to tell women how to do so is a form of oppression, just as much as giving any kind of stupid justification for rape.

      Lecture the men who continue to show lack of respect and sense of humanity to women. Not me, for wearing a low-cut top.

      Posted by Anonymous | January 13, 2012, 12:18
  11. Further, this kind of thinking helps abusers to craft an excuse for their behavior and to avoid full responsibility for despicable actions. Even as abusers know better, they would hardly say “no” to an accidental enabler who is also influential and press-worthy.

    Posted by Jeannine James | January 13, 2012, 10:42
  12. If women today are to” protect” themselves from rape, and men are to “desist” from it, people must be given advice that is based on knowledge. Insisting that rape is not about sex, misinforms both men and women about the motivations behind rape. I was fully dressed going about my business only my face and hands were exposed when someone tried forcing himself on me. Thank god someone came along in time. It sure as hell not only about dressing with your womanly parts exposed!

    Posted by Gloria Williams | January 13, 2012, 11:10
  13. Dess decent or indecent, no man has any right to rape, sexually abuse, or reassuringly kiss any woman. If people are upset about the way women dress and they express it, that is part of what democracy is about. We can no way, and by any means, excuse or justify sexual infringement by us male against women by suggesting that the blame must be given to women by how they dress. I do not myself approve what I see some young women are wearing, but I am old. What do I know? But if women walk the streets naked, I cannot use this as an excuse for sexual crime. We men must learn to respect other human beings, especially women, irrespective of how they chose to dress, and do not use any kind of excuse to justify sexual misbehaviour and and law breaking.

    Posted by olbap | January 13, 2012, 12:13
  14. Our country is at risk. This no time to exchange insults. I personally favour a dictatorship. I am not posting this to make friends so it does not matter who bashes me. Some humans cannot be trusted to chart their own destiny. Anyone who sets out to destroy our island by depriving law abiding residents of their right to live in peace needs to be removed like you would a rotten tooth.
    To quote Dickens. “These are the best of times they are also the worst of times” for SVG. We are all in the ship. Do not let it sink.

    Posted by Joshua Richardson | January 13, 2012, 13:40
    • Out of curiosity- and this is a genuine question- Why do you think a dictatorship will improve the country? Who do you see spearheading this dictatorship?

      As for myself, I simply cannot understand how your logic can bring you to that conclusion. Yes I will admit that democracies don’t always function to the ideal, particularly in countries with poor governance, transparency and high levels of corruption. However, having a dictator doesn’t remove these obstacles. Rather it means that already greedy and corrupt leaders can continue their agendas without fear of removal and retribution. There are very few examples of dictatorships where its citizen’s rights haven’t been cruelly abused. And based on how its been run so far, do you really think that Ralph as dictator will improve the country?

      Posted by Anonymous | January 13, 2012, 16:38
      • When you have the testicular fortitude to use your name, I will respond.

        Posted by Joshua Richardson | January 13, 2012, 22:23
  15. Thinking like this by our leaders is what causes us to be a third world country, you would ever hear such a statement from Brazil, Venezuela, Cuba, Canada or America. Things like this make women’s claims for refugee status even more possible.

    Posted by Bella | January 13, 2012, 15:11
    • Bella you are so right. The issue is not how you dress, it’s how you think! And in this case who you let think for you.

      This is a good reason why women need to become more involved in politics, so that we can be well represented. She was elected I assume. So we have no choice but to assume this is the view of the majority.

      Real issues get side-lined so that politions can win points with the majority.

      Posted by Island Girl | January 13, 2012, 23:10
  16. I dont think this is bad advice. I support the lady. I am not saying this is the only way women can be abused but
    It hurts me when I see women walking around half naked

    Posted by no-nonsense | January 13, 2012, 16:40
  17. some of you people in here got to be joking, how many women dare take such a stand in Government and infront of National TV, and allyo crying her down? Most of allyo just sit back and say glad it aint me, you really say dressing cannot tempt a man, you men who agree are liars… I am a man and we men are moved by the eyes more than anything else… Why the first things we tell women is how fat or what we can do with them? the thoughts came from our minds from what we see, its disgraceful how most women dress these days…

    and we excuse it as “sexy”, and now the old wanna also look sexy also, but lowering the morals.. I am not going to say its an excuse to do evil but am sure many men know when they get turn on its hard to control they emotions, they will go after a woman for long times just to get them even if they pretend they love them then use and leave them so stop criticising the truth…

    Same way we buy food first by how it looks then how it taste, we buy clothes, furniture, almost everything we use by sight but we want to condem the DPM for telling the truth. It would sure help, come down off your pedestals and spend some time listening to the guys on blocks and how they talk when they see a girl pass by and the comparison made depending on how they are dressed, what about listen to a convo by van drivers or men in a group drinking rum and see if they dont all be saying ” she llok good” how many men take the time to really say a woman is of good quality or character” now adays you just cant tell who is who and why should a woman wanna dress like she prostituting because she not happy with herself she wants to be called sexy and be cissseps at… and we men like it so thats why we would bash it… why so many men going to gyms is it really better health or to llok good?

    Posted by Vincy 2 D Bone | January 13, 2012, 16:41
    • “Vincy 2 D Bone” seems to be suffering from some form of depression, low self-esteem, under-accomplished, emotion dysfunctional syndrome. Look where his social pastime is limited to; “being on the blocks doing girl watching, drinking rum, convo by van drivers”. Since when looking good means that one is not happy? Mr. Vincy 2 D Bone you can be of more value to the DPM if when you are with the boys you preach against “evil” and stop making excuses for you and your companions’ insensitive, oppressive behaviors……..let’s hope that you do not have sisters or daughters. For sure you came from a mother.

      Posted by Vincy 2 D Heart | January 14, 2012, 03:04
    • If this is one of the many ways to show how to be a “Vincy 2 D Bone”, well…..

      Posted by Jeannine James | January 14, 2012, 15:20
  18. What else can you expect this is the Deputy Prime Minister. And don’t forget every statement in Parliament by ULP members is always vetted and approved by Gonsalves.

    Unless idiot boy puts his foot in his mouth again that is. But I suppose a smacked legs will sort him out.

    Anyway all for all its a disgrace.

    Posted by Peter | January 13, 2012, 16:52
  19. How about coming down hard on the men who do crimes against women in St.Vincent……. you could talk about their dressing ..but this is not the most important issue………Crimes against our women is….it seems as if she’s blaming the way in which women dressed for the increase crimes against them.

    Posted by muah | January 13, 2012, 17:15
  20. Come on Elson!! Without WOMEN/GIRLS who will there be to EDUCATE and who will be there to WORK?? How will the nation reproduce?? Women have a RIGHT to DRESS in a way that they FEEL COMFORTABLE. Everyone have an opinion to the clothes they like! What will look good on one, won’t look good on the other! Come on Minister Miguel!!

    Posted by Monsica | January 13, 2012, 19:09
  21. This woman is Minister of Mis-education. It is absolutely appalling that she would tell women to dress properly so not to tempt rapists. I don’t give a damn if a woman walks down the street NAKED, that is no invitation for a man to rape her. It is outrageous that she would excuse rapists behavior and blame the victims. I wonder how she would feel if someone was to rape her? Absolutely outrageous!!!

    Posted by Helena | January 13, 2012, 20:40
  22. The women dressed how they feel comfortable, for whatever function they are going. I believe most of the people who pulling them down here are goes to church and petend to be christians. Leave them alone.

    Posted by Smooth | January 13, 2012, 21:40
  23. I think that woman got to parliment and realized she didn’t have a speech and decided to throw something together.Wise up people…educate our people and let them choose.Women should dress decently yes but that is merely a classical cover statement that takes from or shadows the real seriousness of our current to rising problem.The issuse that are to be dealt with are being paid little to no attention to.No man has any right to abuse a woman however the consequences of this harsh reality are not gr8 so i guess they think it’s ok.
    People who committ willful and voilent acts against women already know their faith… long they could be punished for and the treatment on the inside of those prision walls and quite frankly they make their minds up that its better in than out.Seriously!

    Posted by AllNative | January 13, 2012, 21:43
  24. I am glad to see that this topic is devoid of politics. All or most comments are on the topic that affects all women. Please keep the pressure on all parties to start respecting women. The churches should be preaching fire and brimstone on this topic. Silence is golden, but not this time..

    Posted by Vere | January 13, 2012, 21:54
  25. God forbid men start finding our voices tempting…we’ll all have to shut up!!

    Posted by Island Girl | January 13, 2012, 23:00
  26. Ladies, I apologise to you all for the stupidity of our all our ministers.

    It is interesting to see that the churches are not commenting on this disgusting position put forward by Miguel.

    Crick you are twerp of the first order, just shut up and get your head back in the trough.

    Posted by Peter | January 14, 2012, 12:44
  27. The unconstitutional Deputy PM have to blame the women because her PM was charged for rape and she showed support for his act at the ‘rape rally’. Women, brace yourselves, you’ll get no support from your governing administration when dealing with rape. I would like to hear her advice to boys of how they should dress too to avoid other men being intimately attracted to them.

    Posted by KS784 | January 14, 2012, 22:53
  28. Miguel why don’t you get together with that other idiot Daniels the great banana destroyer. You can put your feet in each others mouth.

    Maybe not he considers himself better class, his ancestors never came in chains.

    Well I have news for you both, you are both in chains, chained to massa Gonsalves.

    Third class Marxist’s in the presence of the mock saviour who is here to finish the work of Maurice Bishop [the very dead Marxist scumbag]..


    Posted by Peter | January 15, 2012, 11:22
  29. Sad, that we cannot look at something for what it is worth. I am not saying that improper dressing is the only cause for rape, incest and other sexual sins in our beloved country, but I want to remind us all what the Bible says in 1st Timothy 2:9-10.
    9. In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls or costly array;
    10. But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.

    Posted by Poui | January 16, 2012, 16:36
  30. My comrades I browse through all of your responses on this issue and realized that every one has their own viewpoints. Every thing said here by most of you is true and correct BUT still the responses tend to fit into a different situation. Women has to be in bikini at some point: Beaches,netball, tennis, gym,women pagent show,ect. Women has to look attractive, after all Ms Miguel forget what century she is in. We have move from 19 &20 century a long ago. As for a minister of Govt this woman probably didn’t realized that she has raised a controversal topic that will render an assortment of versions.

    Yes men do lust after both naked and clothed women. Now if the DPM had said that women who dressed half naked are to be careful in what street or alleys to walk during certain time,because it may easier for them to be raped faster than a women who is fully dressed. It would make so much sense, because the fact remains that there are rapist out there.
    The statistic here is that a woman who is half nakedly dressed has a chance of being raped 7 times more than a fully dressed woman.

    On saying this,the DPM cannot tell women how to dress, like I say nothing hurts to give an advise.However, its allways good to take the beam from your eye first before you can see to take it from someone else eyes.She first need to address this matter to her parlimentary ministers, because it was such a shameful thing when her Boss Gonsalves name was broad casted on international news about rape or sexual misconduct.

    Next, she need to have the commissioner of police who doesn’t seems to know what he is doing to search for women preditors,the robbers and the murderers. Police are there to stop crimes,but it not happening,what a shame! It seems like the police are only there to protect Gonsalves. Mr Gonsalves,you have made some eloquent speeches on democracy ,the only problem is that you did not practice what you preach.


    Posted by Danniel8 | January 17, 2012, 05:10
  31. Hi folks, I browse through a litte bit of your responses and realized all of the comments has something true to say but from diffrent viewpoints. The DPM forget that we are no longer in the 19th or 20th century. She also forget this she raised a controversal topic that will welcome an assortment of point of views.

    With out a doubt men lust after both half naked and fully covered women. But regardless women still have to be in their bikini for :Beaches,net ball,valley ball,tennis ,women pageant shows ect. Nothing wrong to give an advise, but it is how it is stated. If for example she had said that women who dress half naked must be careful about the streets and alleys they walk especially at certain time of the day because there are rapist hanging around to predate on them. That will be good words of advise.

    However one must take the beam from one owns eyes inorder to take it from someone else eyes, because the blind cannt lead the blind. Ms Miguel needs to adress this situation to her parlimentary members first before telling some one,because it was a disgrace when Gonsalves name was advertised on international news as some rapist or sexual molester

    She needs to tell the commissioner of police who seems like he has no solution to the crimes to search for the women predators,robbers and murderers. The Police job is to protect the peolpe but in St.Vincent and the Grenadines it’s not happening.
    I am certain Gonsalves get his police protection. Yes Dr, the Honorable Ralph Gonsalves,you have made some eloquent speechs on democracy but only not to practice what you preach.
    Neut &indept

    Posted by Danniel8 | January 17, 2012, 06:06
  32. Ah typical, no solutions to anything just idle talk and titillating conversation! Are we really surprised at our politicians? Jeeze, what a mess this woman is, so this is the solution, dress better don’t tempt, and as previous posters said, what about the women dressed “appropriatly” and raped. This woman needs to check her dumb self!

    Posted by universalshift | January 17, 2012, 13:40
  33. Can we not differ without the name calling?

    Posted by Joshua Richardson | January 17, 2012, 14:24
  34. In reading this article my first thought as nt that the minister was saying the way women dress was the cause of the rape but just appealing to women to take pride in themselves and try to dress in a way that shows that they are women with pride. I understand about dressing in a way that is comfortable but to dress with all ur bottom and breasts blowing in the breeze… That i cannot understand. I would never make such a statement as to say that indecent dressing is what causes rape but as women we have to remember that the way we dress and carry ourselves sends a message to the outside world of the kind of person we may be. Whether that message is correct or incorrect. if i interpreted the minister wrong and she was saying that indecent dressing causes rape then she is most definitely wrong but if not i can agree that vincy ladies, we need to find the balance between comfortable, fashionable and decent.

    Posted by vincyblessedlove | January 17, 2012, 15:32
  35. The only thing people agree about these days is to disagree, so … you all. American enough for you?

    Posted by peek | February 4, 2012, 11:53

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